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Talk:Mystic Arts
The majority of the information here seemed to be repeating itself so I condensed it to make it look more like the Combat Arts page. The only thing missing are the Mighty / Godly modifiers. After doing the combat arts I was unable to find any consistent rule of thumb for applying them so I left them out. Sometimes two different characters will have the same ability and one will have mighty slash and the other won't. Maybe they can live in their own section under each modifier type (Slash, Maul, etc...) until we figure out how they work. Gaebriel 20:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC) Where's the info about Crimson Flare? Blackrose28 08:25, 6 April 2009 (UTC) I dont' think that exist Sarmu 08:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC) If there wasn't an art like that so how the name "Crimson Flare" come up in the first place? In my country,they say : "If there isn't fire,why smoke exist?" Blackrose28 08:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC) It exists and I have it, I just have not a freaking idea what triggered it, I wonder who added Crimson Flare to the page though : http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/649/crimsonflare2.png - Alaera 19:54, 6 April 2009 (UTC) Yea, I should read forum more often Sarmu 16:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC) Somebody want to add AP requirements for PC, which are vastly higher? (Whiteout I is like 120AP IIRC) PHJF 03:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC) Crimson Flare The leader has to use Grenade Impact I-V spells (Invocations), one unit an Invocations, one unit an Evocations, one unit a Hexes and one unit a Psionics spell. Arcana Arts AP requirement to trigger Arcana arts is cost to use Arcana with union command, ie Use Fatal Eclipse, which requires full union morale and right arcana trigger conditions to be met at end of previous turn. So basically the same as Unique Art/Remnant Weapon Art full morale trigger, union picture will behave in exact same manner with orange haze. Fortunately since there aren't too many fights where the conditions for the command appearing are all met at the end of one turn together, Arcana arts can be triggered by force through 1) union command chain matching the learning criteria for current level Arcana you have learnt previously and 2) for all arcana above whiteout Union out of deadlock, which when performing flank/rear attacks unhindered meets their lock condition to trigger. If union is locked before they act, and lock is still active when union is up Arcana will fail and be performed as individual arts by each member. Blackout & Whiteout don't seem to have a lock condition as they can be force triggered while in both lock or out of lock simply by command chain required to learn current or higher level. Command chain that meets current learnt Arcana level nearly always forces an Arcana trigger even with less than required AP. As you level up art trees used in Arcana chains, Arcana triggers can be forced with substantially less AP than art requires for command to appear, when forcing an Arcana art trigger it will cost total AP to perform union command chain of individual arts making up the Arcana. Ie. Blackout V can be forced with Permafrost V (30AP) + Spark V (6AP) + Caustic Blast V (21AP) which is total cost of 57AP for union, even though Blackout V costs 75AP to use union will force the trigger at total cost of commands used to trigger it, mind you it can be done with 40-45AP but higher tier arts will almost always force the Arcana to trigger at your current level, chance of learning higher level of same Arcana art is much lower and more often than not union will just perform the arts one by one. Knowing the required arts for your current level makes pulling off intentional Arcana Art use satisfying and painless, and since forcing Arcana has no union morale requirement to meet which the command does, they can get you out of nearly any situation. Unions can be also can be setup to the makeup of certain Arcana arts, with members who have higher usage of invocations/evocations, and a leader with higher invocations usage for triggering frequent Blackout's. If you want to force an Arcana which the leader art group required to cast it, has low usage (ie. hexes usage higher than invocation usage, invocation and evocation usage similar), simply disable hex/evo art trees, and only enable highest tier invocation art that is required for Blackout V, which is Permafrost V and it'll trigger almost every time other 2 members use invocations in chain :) I wouldn't use Wildfire IV/Gren Impact III to trigger it, they'll more often than not trigger art spread recalculation from their high AP cost, and Gren Impact/Atk/Atk or Wildfire/Spark V/Atk are useless. Permafrost V AP cost and setup time nearly always result in full union mystic art chain everytime on Give Them All you Got command. :Question about requirements of arcana arts. For example a union has 4 units and i'm trying to use blackout. In a fight, if i have a command that allows all 4 units to use invos (leader correct art), will blackout trigger? Or will it only trigger if exactly 3 ppl (with leader) can use evo/invo arts? ::It will trigger with at least 3 (that covers 4 and 5 too). You also need to have enough AP to cast the Arcana (which is why it usually doesn't work in the first round). Also not all leaders that know Invocations can trigger and learn Blackout, but i assume you checked that already. Drake178 17:03, 7 July 2009 (UTC) :::Even if you disable arkana (once learned), they might be usable if all your members use the specific art. Leader/ Arts Table Is there somewhere on this wikia a page, that shows which leaders learn (or start with) which art types (and learning BR)? :Nope, there isn't. If you go into the specific arts though(ie. Restore), they do list the characters that can use them. Drake178 07:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC) ::Yes, i did that. I had some leaders learn some arcana arts the last few days, so it does work, but i didn't check availabe AP at that time. I'll do more testing with Blackout (as it's the easiest arcana to trigger with 3 units) and watch for AP when it does activate. But how should i beat the quest The Ladies of Bloody Alice, when i can't trigger an arcana in first turn? They kill at least two of my unions in one turn, after i killed one of their boss type unions, so i can't deal enough damage in second turn to kill more of them, besides my moral droppes to far down at this point, so i take even more damage and deal less. Zarathustra01 17:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC) :You can trigger one if you manage to make a union that has enough starting AP to cast one (put 5 people in it). Trigger commands can also be there if you go in with less unions (can probably just Gae Bolg them that way). Drake178 18:10, 7 July 2009 (UTC) ::Easier method is use Battlefield Remnant Weapon Arts, such as Zeal's Virtue or Megalore. You will have Megalore with Pagus, and if you stay the first turn you'll have enough AP to drop it on the battlefield, for the next 2 or 3 turns. I use Snowblind or Zeal's Virtue usually but they are all the same. On the last turn you might get an Arcana. My previous attempt went like this: Gaou's union stay first turn, other unions attack/use psionics to raise battlefield morale to max (bluff/addle) and retreat flare which setup the conditions to use a Remnant WA or an Arcana (high battlefield morale). Zeal's Virtue second turn. Zeal's Virtue third turn. Zeal's Virtue fourth turn. Blackout fifth turn.Mikeyakame 02:04, 8 July 2009 (UTC) Arcana usage ?? Can we use any arcana arts(i mean arts that they've learnt) with just three characters in same unions.enough AP,and morale ? Ex: can we use Crimson Flare with three chars,david set as leader and leanrt CrimsonFlare,with right conditons.can he use it ? -- 04:11, 15 July 2009 (UTC) :Yes. Drake178 07:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC) But as said there are specific requirements for the command to show up this way (see Battle Commands#Arcana commands). - Merthos 08:05, 15 July 2009 (UTC) still can't see crimson flare in your link,drake xD but if u say so i'll try :D--JiangWei Cloud 12:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC) :That's because noone added it yet, but it's the same as the other ones. Drake178 12:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC) Mystic Art Post Execution Splash Occasionally after executing a mystic art, a "splash" occurs near the casters feet. Has anyone ever done a correlation study with this "splash" effect Vs. Mystic Chance occurences. I have been trying to watch for this, then watch post battle mystic art advancement for that specific character. I could swear there is a connection between the two. 12:01, September 21, 2009 (UTC) :It happens during other events too not just mystic arts. It could symbolize stat up/mystic chance/etc but not exactly sure myself. This signature was complements of the chef! 12:11, September 21, 2009 (UTC) Thanks, at least I know I'm not *completely* deluding myself now. 12:21, September 21, 2009 (UTC) i have been observing this splash when executing mystic arts and i have a theory that when its done it grants the next unit in line an automatic success on critical trigger that or its just a bonus to the official reason for it. someone confirm please??? 21:02, February 28, 2010 (UTC) Dual Wielding magic Right now I have an enchanted demonblade equipped on rush which for a weapon gives the most amount of magic. Now if I dual wield let's say two runic executioners what will my magic value be? I read somewhere its the full value of magic on the main hand plus half the magic from the off hand which would give me a magic value of 125 + 62.5 = 187.5. Is this true? Follow up question is does the mystic +5 ability from the runics stack, add, or just give the one ability? So would I get +69% to magic damage, 60%, just the 30% from the main hand or 45% by halfing the off hand bonus? Espinadoboko 10:27, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :I don't know what, if any, effect dual wielding has on your mystic attacks. My first guess would be that you get the main hand mystic attack value and that's it. The two mystic +5 effects on the other hand do fully stack, although i can't recall off the top of my head whether it was additive or multiplicative (i think it was additive, ie +60%). Drake178 22:46, May 29, 2010 (UTC) Ok I'm back to confirm that after much testing I can safely say that dual wield does improve your magic attacks. I used melle stance, no accesories, no other teammates, and faced Bai Ze over and over collecting data on how much each magic attack did to him. I tested this with just an optimal tataraichi+3 and then mixed in a superlative splitter for the dual wield. I know there is a small random factor but that's why I collected a lot of data of the same spells damage range and compared it to when I dual wielded. Single target spells did about 4 K more damage, and union spells did 2K more damage just about when I was dual wielding. You can also look at the formation power level. When I just had the OT on I had 155 attack, 54 defense, 140 mystic, and 71 magic defense. When I added the splitter I gained 45 attack, 4 defense, 38 mystic, and 4 magic defense. That 45 attack and 38 mystic is exactly half of what the superlative splitter has in values. The only question now is what would be the best magic dual wielding equipment. The aura/parrying tataraichi has the best mystic and you can find one of its earlier forms with a +3 attached to it so even better. But would 2 runic splitters be better then a aura tataraichi+3 combined with a runic splitter? You would have 157 magic with two Runic Splitters and 2 mystic arts+5 abilties vs over 200 mystic and a mystic art+5 ability. Time for more grinding and testing...Espinadoboko 16:10, June 1, 2010 (UTC) Second Chance Ok, so should we leave in-game description in place, even if it isn't entirely correct? Basically, Second Chance is a totally different, "Heal everything" effect - it can even remove Enthrall and Curse statuses (Demigod gave me a nice helping hand to test this). So, it's a) Revive if cast on a KO'd union, or b) Heal all HP and clear *all* possible statuses if cast on a live union. It is also a special Art in the sense that it can be used on both alive and KO'd targets - all other Arts are either heal or revive, not both (so I don't think Drake's changes to Effect page are making any sense). --Just dont do it 19:02, May 30, 2010 (UTC) :Revive = Recovery + Resurrection, if this was not the case all Revive arts would bring you back at 1 hp. I figured it was common sense that if they also revive they heal less than a similar rank Recovery only art would. Second Chance is not different at all, you won't see it appear unless you either need healing, cures, or resurrection, it just happens to be viable for all of them. And while we're in this argument it also does NOT clear Enthralled (it does clear Cursed), not to mention that it also clears almost all positive statuses too. The only valid point i see here is the fact that Second Chance can also appear when you don't need either Revive or Clear Status Ailments (ie heal only), which is the only difference between it and any other revival/status clear art. I'll think about it, but i don't want to add a hidden Recovery effect just because it can be used to only heal, especially considering the unique nature of this art (it has its own battle command and will not appear in a regular command chain). :As for the Effect page, i was a bit more tired than i usually am when i made that change, it should make much more sense now. :Here is the complete list of what statuses are cleared by Second Chance: :*Unit Statuses: Blacked Out, Petrification, Burned, Shocked, Frozen, Acid Burn, Protection, Physical Eater, Orphic Ward, Mystic Eater :*Union Statuses: Paralyzed, Silenced, Poisoned, Cursed, Decoy, Stealth, Invincible, Charge Up, Charge Down, STR Up, STR Down, INT Up, INT Down, SPD Up, SPD Down, ATK Up, ATK Down, DEF Up, DEF Down, Evasion Up, Evasion Down Drake178 21:59, May 30, 2010 (UTC) : Well, I see your point regarding revive and heal - but it still doesn't change the fact that SC have some unusual properties and that they (IMO) are worth mentioning somewhere. Maybe we can add a few words to its description page (and leave the tables as they are)? Then again, if we'll follow the logic for its battle command - it's geared towards healing, not revive. The command appears only for Groggy unions (statuses, etc. are absolutely irrelevant), if there are just KO'd unions, its command will not appear -- there will be only "Bring them back!" for regular revive Arts. So there's only one possible Revive scenario: if a Groggy union is KO'd before SC, then it'll be revived without reassessing/changing Arts (or maybe two: if a Groggy union is healed with another union before SC, so it will retarget to another union. But I'm not sure if this could happen). : PS: Yeah, I was wrong with Enthralled. --Just dont do it 05:33, May 31, 2010 (UTC) : PPS: How about adding another Effect to clearly state SC bounds? I.e. a line "Second Chance" to the effect table, along with all the relevant info (heal, revive, list of cleared statuses)? Maybe it's also worth mentioning that it does have a huge heal margin (or it's "forced" full-heal) - for player unions it's always a full-heal up to 9999hp, but its limits can't be seen even on enemy unions (i.e. like Enlightened Hannah SC'ing Hinnah for ~350k hp - full-heal again). --Just dont do it 05:47, May 31, 2010 (UTC) :: Hmmm, did some more tests. SC do appear for only KO'd unions, although a bit rarely and not in every possible case. But it always appear for Groggy union(s) if a union with SC have enough AP. --Just dont do it 15:29, May 31, 2010 (UTC) I was wondering how often the leaders will ask which way they need to go, since I made Torgal Combat Arts, but I want to change it to mystic arts for an arcana. If anyone can help me, that would be wonderful :) --Marcel Niemans 14:52, August 13, 2010 (UTC) I Forgot to mention it's for the pc that I ask :) --Marcel Niemans 14:58, August 13, 2010 (UTC) :Unique leaders will ask twice what their focus should be. You don't need to focus him again for an Arcana since you just need to meet and trigger the Arcana's requirements, which is separate from equipment focuses. I have a combat-focused Torgal with Whiteout V and Fatal Eclipse V because I met and triggered the requirements for those Arcana. Zephyr135 15:00, August 13, 2010 (UTC) That's the thing cause he's combat arts now, he just simply refuses to use Psionics even if I turned every other arts off. He just simply won't use it to increase it so he's stuck with bluff. Even with a lot of enemies, there's simply no bluff. Even Leschau won't use it when I make him leader, and I'm sure I've got the other party members right :) --Marcel Niemans 15:21, August 13, 2010 (UTC) :Pretty sure it's not the focus as I've had Torgal use Psionics just fine when Combat-focused. It might be his class that's causing this behaviour. If he's in a combat class, it does make it harder for Mystic commands to pop up. Perhaps sticking a large number of mystic units in his union with him buried in there? Try opening up his Evocations as well to get him to something like the Cleric or Deathknight class. He's a Paladin in one of my files, and he's tossing around MAs without much problem. Zephyr135 15:30, August 13, 2010 (UTC) He is now a Legendary Mysticknight, so not sure that's why, but I'll open up Evocations then and see if that'll help. I'll let u know :) Since I'm currently playing it on my main pc and typing this on a netbook heh. --Marcel Niemans 15:34, August 13, 2010 (UTC) Ok Torgal just went from Legendary Mysticknight to a Cleric and according to the Classlist it's a class for Combat + Mystic Arts, but still he refuses to use Psionics :) So I guess I need to turn off his Combat Arts and only turn on Mystic Arts?? --Marcel Niemans 18:32, August 16, 2010 (UTC) :Have you tried taking him to an area where the army starts with low morale? I've noticed that the "High Mystics" tend to be more conditional than the "Low Mystics," so that may be the case. Zephyr135 18:54, August 16, 2010 (UTC) I'm currently busy with the Guild Tasks to get the rank up towards Rank 5 for the last 2 Customization Levels, so I fought the Jhana Royals and The Fiery Gates and he uses Evocations more then Psionics. And also Leschau which is about the same with Mystic Arts as Torgal won't use Psionics aswell. And he's an Expert Marksman (Equipped with Morningstar), Torgal is equipped with Dual Gremory. :As far as I can tell, your equipment and focus has nothing to do with what commands pop up. The only thing I can really say is just block everything but Psionics and go to an area where the army starts with low morale. I've never had trouble getting those guys or anyone to use Psionics, and that's including Hinnah... Zephyr135 19:15, August 16, 2010 (UTC) Hmm I'll see if that'll work, btw which area's are good to practice that?? I just finished Fornstrand main story and I've got access to almost every part, besides Undelwalt then. Also I need to check if I got all 6 Siebenur Paths. Also sorry I forgot to use the signature option for my previous post, not sure if it's that a big crime lol. --Marcel Niemans 19:23, August 16, 2010 (UTC) :I usually go somewhere like Flaumello Tower (opens from The Desert's Legend), the Second Path (knowledgeable Yama in Athlum) or Mt. Vackel (story). Those areas are usually at a high enough level for training Psionics. Bai Ze could be an option, but I think your BR might be high enough to start at a fairly decent morale level. Zephyr135 19:31, August 16, 2010 (UTC) I'll go to the 2nd path then, since it's not as annoying as Flaumello Tower lol. I almost got lost whahaha xD But Cleric Class is a good class for Torgal to use Psionics?? Since it's Combat + Mystic :) --Marcel Niemans 19:42, August 16, 2010 (UTC) :I had the JP guide with me, so it was easy navigating the place. Torgal's final class should be Mys+Com, unless you wanted him to stay completely dedicated to combat. If that were the case, then the final class he should get is Axman/Swashbuckler. It'll be easier for him to use MAs as a Cleric because it's a Mys+Com class, as a few of the Com classes have Hot-blooded. It might be easier to stick him in a union with a leader that has Esoteric. I believe someone like Leshau would fit the bill quite nicely. Zephyr135 20:00, August 16, 2010 (UTC) U mean Union Morale or the big morale meter in top??? This game is massive to fully understand O.O heh. Still it's one of the better JRPGs besides FFVII & VIII ofcourse ^^ -- 07:23, August 18, 2010 (UTC) :Yes, the army morale. Morale affecting skills mostly deal with that. Cheer does help move the army morale, along with the union's morale. You seriously want to compare this to the FF series? Almost anything SaGa is better than FF, with the exception of Unlimited Saga because that one is just plain weird. I'll give you FFVIII though because that game is interesting to break. I'd take SaGa2 for the Gameboy over most of the FF games for its deceptive simplicity. Zephyr135 14:29, August 18, 2010 (UTC) I meant more for the pc heh, though I liked DQ IX & Sands of Destruction on the NDS!! eitherway thanks for the info ^^ --Marcel Niemans 23:58, August 18, 2010 (UTC) Unable to use Arcana Arts (PC) Well, this one is pretty weird for me. Everything was fine when I was wandering The Ancient Ruins, Maddox and Zolean could still use Blackout and Whiteout to clear enemy, making the training quick. But then I went back to the world map and when I returned, facing the same enemy union setup (4 ally's vs 7 enemy's), those arts' command just never showed up. The only thing I had changed was the units in each union but it still met the requirement for the Arcana. Then, even when I switched back to the previous union setup, even with only 1 unions comparing to 7 enemy's, no command for Arcana art. So I would like to ask if the battle rank or battle chain affect the usage of Arcana, like high battle rank makes them show up less or high battle chain makes them show up more. PS: I ended up bringing Pagus back to the main party for his Megalore. And after 100 battle chains, Black Out command eventually appeared once, which made me really confused. @@ --The end. 07:04, January 31, 2011 (UTC) :: I am sure the BR does not afect the ability to cast Arcanas like Blackout. I had had David triggering Blackout II at BR 45, with all the Athlum Generals in his union, while Caedmon, at BR 100, was able to cast Whiteout IV without any problem. --DarkKanda 10:04, April 4, 2011 (UTC) Can't Synergize I don't know if anyone of you know this yet but Arcana can't be used when one or more units is OK'd in a union using Arcana, When I was fighting the Remnant Guards I force trigger an Arcana (Animalcule) using Rush as leader using Cachexia V, Zolean using Dispirit V, Nora using Paralyze Gas V, Wyngale using Paralyze Gas VI and Emmy using Silent Gas III with more than 300 AP but Emmy is KO's but the requirement is still met but my union did not Synergy and my only explanation is Emmy being KO'd in the next round I revive Emmy and it triggered Animalcule. But I still need to test this in all Arcana but its hard to get one unit KO'd.--Remnant13 08:53, May 12, 2011 (UTC) :The word "Synergy" implies that everyone has to be alive in order to trigger Arcana, seeing as how it causes the entire union to help with the casting, even if there's a unit in there that can't use an MAs. Same thing when there's a unit that's Blacked Out, no synergy because the union is considered to have an ailment on it. Even if you get the right combo, you won't be able to use Arcana when the union is Cursed as well. The entire union must be able to participate. Zephyr 16:07, May 12, 2011 (UTC) :I just hate curse only Rush and Irina are safe with it in my Union, oh and I found this trainer I forgot its name that gives you the insactly value of HP even changing your skills Rush using Brawl and Onmistrike (Irina) which is creepy cuz he moves like a girl, and Emmy using Seduction.--Remnant13 19:23, May 12, 2011 (UTC) ::Necifier's? Zephyr 19:32, May 12, 2011 (UTC) :Thats right!--Remnant13 19:33, May 12, 2011 (UTC) Evo/invo What do you guys prefer? i prefer evocations, as their more long range, although double time helps a lot Arcana unable to cast. I don't know if it has been posted before here, or in Arcana, but none of the arcana can be used if you have any status effects within the union. This means ANY, poison, curse, paralyze, silenced (der.) and even 1 person in the unit KO'ed. --Zeion97 00:12, July 24, 2011 (UTC) :It's on the Synergy page. And you can cast with the union paralyzed as it's not stopping their ability to use MAs. The Synergy can even be stopped when a unit is Piyo'd. Zephyr 00:31, July 24, 2011 (UTC) About Dual Wielding, Extra Hits, Damage Modifiers and more How does Dual Wielding Affect damage / healing, outside of the bonus effect of the secondary weapon? What about casting speed? (my guess is that it slows casting speed due to the added encumbrance, never tested it though). Does each Art have its own base number of hits (as with Combat Arts)? Does a high Speed value provide extra hits? About Damage modifiers: How do Damage Modifiers of Weapons and Arts Interact? For example, is casting Mystic Missile (Pierce) while having a Divine Rapier (Godly Pierce) equipped any better than casting it while having a Spatha Caelestis (Godly Slash) equipped, knowing they have the same Mystic Attack stat? While we're on the subject, is there a common consensus about which modifier is globally better? What about Mighty / Godly (which I guess are damage bonuses)? Is the Omni modifier a combination of all modifiers? how does it work? --Aymen623 (talk) 12:54, October 9, 2014 (UTC) : Averages the MYS value between your weapons, uses that. Casting speed is dependent on the same factors as CAs. A little bit slower since they're MAs. : 1 hit for each MA. If it targets a unit, then it has the potential to add another 4 hits for up to 28% extra damage (10/8/5/5). From my experience, speedier units did have an easier time adding extra hits. : From what I've seen, the art's modifier overrides the weapon's modifier unless they match. If they match, there's a small damage bonus, although it's difficult to tell how much. I've tried tracking it with IAs and it's all over the place. A lot of the time it's rather negligible. Since the modifiers match, casting with the Divine Rapier equipped will result in slightly higher damage than casting it with Spatha Caelestis. : Since modifiers are pretty messed up on the PC, and with so many different factors going on in battle, there's really no consensus of which of the 4 modifiers is the best. Omni outright wins since it combines all 4 into a neat little package at 100%/150%/200%. What the modifiers are supposed to do is add bonus damage based on the modifier level when hitting an elemental weakness. So if you use something with Godly Omni, you should be hitting for double damage if you manage to hit any weakness. Base = +20%, Mighty = +50%, Godly = +100%. Zephyr (talk) 16:13, October 9, 2014 (UTC)